Forum Activity for @Jonathan Edelson

Jonathan Edelson
@Jonathan Edelson
01/16/14 13:53:34
29 posts

Caramel/roller cutter


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Interesting about the pizza wheels getting caught.

I guess I got lucky with the pizza blades that I selected. They have a hub in the center, about 1/8" thick and 3/4" in diameter, with a 3/8" hole. They ride perfectly on the all-thread.

I was just doing a search for something else, and found this:
http://www.wasserstrom.com/restaurant-supplies-equipment/Product_432703

They sell the central rod and the blades separately. The central rod is $30, the blades are $16 each (ouch!). If you only need a few blades (say for scoring bark) then this might be a reasonable way to go.

-Jon

Larry2
@Larry2
01/16/14 11:37:45
110 posts

Caramel/roller cutter


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I'd advise against using pastry cutter. We tried that and had terrible issues with the spacing between the blades. There is too much play in the accordion mechanism, and the wheels are wobbly. If you do use one, the best thing I've seen is to screw the spacing to a piece of hardwood. This will eliminate most of the play in the accordion, but won't do much for the sloppy wheels.

- If you would like to buy my pastry cutter, I'll sell it for $10. :)

We ended up building a roller cutter similar to what Jon posted above. (The part numbers are FABULOUS!) Thank you Jon.

I tried using all-thread with various spacers, but found the pizza blades would get stuck in a thread and get cock-eyed (non-parallel). So, we went witha length of bar then used cap nuts to hold it all together.

I imagine we could get our bar threaded and thus be able to have nice handles. :) That will be a great step up.

Guilt Chocolate
@Guilt Chocolate
01/16/14 09:44:23
1 posts

Caramel/roller cutter


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I'd be curious to know as well! Also, if something like this pastry cutter wheel set would work...

In any case, when i use a knife, i rarely get a full cut in one knife length which requires lifting and moving (the 'frames' i use are clearly the wrong size for knife cutting). so eager to find alternatives that don't cost such a mighty amount!

Jonathan Edelson
@Jonathan Edelson
01/15/14 14:35:32
29 posts

Caramel/roller cutter


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I have not had good luck with rolling cutters for ganache; the ganache tends to stick to the side of the roller. However another chocolate life member has pictures showing good luck...as well as their home-made roller cutters.

http://www.thechocolatelife.com/forum/topics/diy-guitar?commentId=1978963%3AComment%3A134163

I have also made my own rolling cutter; materials for one 12" wide with cutters on 5/8" centers would cost about $90.

I used the following components:

replacement pizza cutter blades, http://www.katom.com/166-PCW4.htm l

parts from McMaster-Carr ( http://www.mcmaster.com ):

stainless steel threaded rod 93250A460

nylon unthreaded spacers 94639A212

tapered handle with threaded insert 57455K64

stainless steel hex nuts 92673A125

They have different sized spacers. It is trivial to make a couple of different cutters for the different sizes that you need.

-Jon

Jim Braunagel
@Jim Braunagel
01/14/14 17:14:45
9 posts

Caramel/roller cutter


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

The vendor of the most expensive one said their cutter would work, but I was also looking for the opinion of someone on the forum who had used one and so far no one has responded. Assuming any of them might work, I would have thought more people might have used them as a cheaper alternative to a guitar or until a guitar was necessary. The mid-priced one is adjustable without having to remove the blades and add spacers. I think you probably need to buy extra blades for the $400 cutter so the price is probably closer to $485. It would be nice to know if the $200 scored caramel/toffee and also cut ganache up to a half inch thick, at least better than I can do freehand.

Lisa Morley
@Lisa Morley
01/14/14 15:13:41
15 posts

Caramel/roller cutter


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Hi Jim

Did you get anywhere with this?

I am thinking along the same lines of buying a caramel cutter to use for ganache slabs.

Cheers

Lisa

Jim Braunagel
@Jim Braunagel
12/03/13 13:53:16
9 posts

Caramel/roller cutter


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I was wondering if anyone had successfully used one of these for ganache or pate de fruits. Three models that I've seen are around $200, $400 and $850 with the more expensive ones being able to cut thicker items.


updated by @Jim Braunagel: 04/11/25 09:27:36
mary amsterdam
@mary amsterdam
12/14/13 19:17:24
25 posts

rev delta overnight mode


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Thanks for the helpful info!

Josh Neubauer
@Josh Neubauer
12/14/13 18:46:03
2 posts

rev delta overnight mode


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

If you leave it in overnight mode, make sure the machine is nearly full, that way it wont need to cycle as much and you wont have to worry about the chocolate beginning to set.

Russ Apotheker
@Russ Apotheker
12/14/13 12:46:17
12 posts

rev delta overnight mode


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I've used this a couple times and in general it works great to come in to melted chocolate. Chocovision actually recommended that I use this as I was having efficiency issues with my tempering machines.

mary amsterdam
@mary amsterdam
12/02/13 13:13:38
25 posts

rev delta overnight mode


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

does anyone who uses the rev delta 3210 ever use the overnight mode. l read once about it causing motor burnout, and ever since i have been hesitant to use it. but it would be great to have the chocolate melted first thing in the morning. would love to hear others' experiences.

thanks!


updated by @mary amsterdam: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Kristofer Kalas
@Kristofer Kalas
12/04/13 20:00:19
9 posts

hand-dipping truffles


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

If you're hand-dipping square truffles, you'll ideally want to use what's called a 'bottoming mix.' Basically, take 50/50 Cocoa Liquor and Cocoa Butter, mix and melt to about 32-34C, stir and cool to about 29/30C, and apply to the top or bottom of your truffles.

Most often, the easiest way to do this is by taking a pastry brush and brushing the bottom of a piece of parchment, putting your ganache frame on top and finally filling it with your ganache before it is fully set.

The other way to do it would be once your truffles are cut, to place them evenly apart on a tray and spray that bottoming mix through a compressed air system. Of course, if you are doing very low volume, other methods may make more sense (but these are the most time-efficient).

mary amsterdam
@mary amsterdam
12/03/13 10:16:58
25 posts

hand-dipping truffles


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I actually do both. but i love using transfer sheets and so i started enrobing truffles.

Greg Gould
@Greg Gould
12/03/13 04:09:47
68 posts

hand-dipping truffles


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Why are you switching?
mary amsterdam
@mary amsterdam
12/02/13 12:16:32
25 posts

hand-dipping truffles


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Yes, thanks Larry. i will try it!

Ashley2
@Ashley2
12/02/13 11:34:42
11 posts

hand-dipping truffles


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I pre-coat mine. Wearing gloves I put a nickel size amount of chocolate in my palm and roll truffle, then drop onto pan (I drop them a little hard so that the bottom is flat). The ganache I make is a bit soft, so rolling them in chocolate before dipping them helps keep the round shape. After they are set I dip them, I use a fork and a toothpick. I hold the fork at an angle, and use the toothpick to help slide it off. If your ganache is firm enough though I wouldn't pre-coat, but I always keep toothpicks around to help me out :)
Larry2
@Larry2
12/02/13 05:44:04
110 posts

hand-dipping truffles


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I was just thinking about the angles I mentioned above. I think I got them backwards. - Instead of going from 45 to 35 degrees, I'm moving the tip of the fork away from the chocolate which should increase the angle. So the chocolate would stay at 45 degrees but the fork would move to a higher degree with the tip slightly pulling off the base of the chocolate, say 55 degrees.

Does that make sense?

Larry2
@Larry2
12/02/13 05:22:17
110 posts

hand-dipping truffles


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

Mary,

From your picture, it looks like your truffles are square. This will make it much easier (and quicker) to precoat them. There are two ways you could pre-bottom your truffles.

1. spread your chocolate out before putting your ganache frames down and pouring your ganache. thus once your ganache sets, and you cut it, you'll already have a very smooth bottom.

2. pour your ganache into your frame & when you are about ready to dip, coat the top of the ganache, let the chocolate set a bit, & then flip it over & cut it. I prefer this method because you can cut the chocolate before it fully sets. This helps prevent the chocolate from cracking when you cut it.

Our centers are very softso pre-coating the bottom prevents the center from sinking into the dipping fork and thus sliding off much easier.

To get the truffle off the fork, i like to keep the fork warm in the chocolate (this prevents the chocolate from setting to the cold tines of the fork). Also, I like to dip with tip of the fork thus the truffle only needs to slide a short distance.

Also, once the truffle is sliding off the tip, I'll set the front end on the paper & push my fork down to break the tension and slide it out more easily. This sounds peculiar - If the truffle and fork are at a 45 degree angle, i'll set the tip of the truffle on the paper & push the tip of the fork to say 35 degrees and thus the fork pulls away from the truffle and it is easier to slide the fork out.

Then, we'll slide the fork out a bit & push the center back onto the foot. This helps minimize any feet.

Then lay the fork flat& pull it out.

I hope this helps. :)

mary amsterdam
@mary amsterdam
12/01/13 07:23:31
25 posts

hand-dipping truffles


Posted in: Tech Help, Tips, Tricks, Techniques

I recently started hand-dipping my truffles instead of shell molding so i am still working out my techniques. I read somewhere that it's good to coat the bottom of the truffle with a "crumb coat" of chocolate before you dip to make it easier to slide off the dipping fork. i have tried this, and it's a time-consuming process. does any one know if this is really necessary? any tips on getting the dipped truffle off the fork smoothly and quickly (besides lots of practice - which i am certainly getting this season!)

thanks


updated by @mary amsterdam: 04/11/25 09:27:36
Ashley2
@Ashley2
12/02/13 12:26:02
11 posts

Organic Walnut Chocolate Bar


Posted in: Opinion

I agree that it is important. I buy direct trade. Most small farms and co-ops cannot afford the certification fees for fair-trade or organic.It's good that Hershey has this line available, however I would be impressed if they took steps to ensure all of the cocoa they purchase is fairly traded.
pimwipa palahong
@pimwipa palahong
11/30/13 15:30:02
1 posts

Organic Walnut Chocolate Bar


Posted in: Opinion

Hello Chocolate lovers,

I'm a new member here and very excited to get to know you guys :). I am actually a business student of UC Berkeley Extension who of course loves chocolate. However, being a good world citizen, I am alway aware of unfair trade products, especially products I frequently consume like chocolate.

As you guys might already know about child labor and human trafficking problems in cocoa industry in Ghana and other West African Region, I'd like to ask you for opinions about fair trade chocolate products. Are you usually aware of that? and Do you normally check the label before buying?

Here's a new product line of Hershey's chocolate barthat supports the idea of ending child labor in this industry. Please go to our Facebook page and share your valuable ideas and opinions with us! Let make the world a better place together and make our favorite chocolate bar more valuable as well :)

https://www.facebook.com/fairtradechocolatebar

Pim

ppimwipa@yahoo.com


updated by @pimwipa palahong: 04/12/15 02:34:21
Sebastian
@Sebastian
12/18/13 04:32:49
754 posts

fermentation - the light came on?


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

If it's really that serious of a health issue, it sounds like a gamble to me to attempt to consume it. I can't stress enough that there is no current safe method of producing raw cocoa consistently that has safe microbiological levels.

I'm not versed enough in the formation pathways of biogenic amines in the various process steps of cocoa, nor in their subsequent pathways upon ingestion to know if the above is a known element or an educated guess. I've never heard of it, which leads me to believe it's fantastically rare, which leads me to believe it's not well studied.

As sorry to say this as i am, i'd steer clear of it. Your either playing russian roulette with your disease, or salmonella. At minimum i'd keep a course ofquinolone or floroquinolones nearby.

bongaan
@bongaan
12/17/13 06:37:04
12 posts

fermentation - the light came on?


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

Thank you Sebastian. I think I'm narrowing down the reasons why chocoloate is an issue for people with histaminosis.

1. Biogenic amine formation during thermogenic changes, mostly during drying, roasting and grinding.

2. Milk powder in milk chocolated; biogenic amine formation during the production of milk powder

3. Cocoa is potentially a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAO Inhibitor); thus effecting neurotransmitter levels which ain't a good thing for some histaminosis sufferers as biogenic amines already tend to mess with neurotransmitters.

4. Cocoa seems to be a histamine liberator (causing mast cells to release histamine)for some unknown reason (to me)

So the best I can do is use raw cocoa which have the least amount of biogenic amines butwith a possible high microbiological count. And to avoid milk chocolate. Any other suggestions?

Sebastian
@Sebastian
11/29/13 05:56:56
754 posts

fermentation - the light came on?


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

There are a few important steps that could impact the formation of biogenic amines. Most of them do not form during fermentation, i'm afraid.

The first is fermentation - fermentation can take up to 7 days, and can be done a variety of ways. One of the things that occurs during fermentation is the consumption of raw materials (i.e. sugars are consumed), which results in the increase of non-consumed components. This leads to a higher fat content, which is important for future processing. Unfermented cocoa beans, on their own, will have a fat content that is too low to enable the cocoa bent to be fluid once it's ground. Those processing it won't be able to pump it. Most free amino acids are in the pulp at this stage, which drains away. Pyrazines begin to form at this stage. Temperatures can get fairly high here (150F +) - since there is no definition of 'raw' - it becomes difficult to say if fermented beans are raw or not - however the general consensus in the raw community is that if temperatures exceed 118F, it's not raw. Since it's quite common for the ambient environmental temperatures where cocoa is grown to exceed 118F, never mind the temperatures during fermentation, most of the raw community wouldn't consider cocoa to be raw.

Next is drying - if you don't dry the beans, they'll have very high moistures and rot, or if low enough prevent rotting, they can still be high enough to give viscosity issues during further processing. Temperatures can be very high here, but most use the power of the sun. A complex cascade of internal chemical reactions is occurring here.

Next is roasting - very high temperatures. Here is where most of your amino changes are occurring, with lots of strecker degradation reactions occurring as a result of the thermogenic induction. This is also your primary micro kill step. It's reducing your moisture down to ~1% level so you can process it (again, it will be too viscous if you don't), and since raw cocoa beans have extraordinarily high microbiological counts (this is the reason they're not safe to consume pre-roasting), this is the step - and the only step - where those counts will be reduced to safe levels. Since flavor precursors are forming during fermentation (hence the pyrazine comment above), roasting of unfermented beans doesn't result in a flavor improvement.

For cocoa powder production - what happens next is the beans are ground up (turned into liquor) - where they become flowable. The grinding process itself generates heat (i'm unaware of any work that has been done to examine the changes in peptide profiles at this step), and then it goes to a very, very high pressure hydraulic press. Since this press requires the liquor to be flowable and fluid, if the beans were not fermented, the processor would not be able to do this. A very small amount of cocoa powder has it's butter extracted via supercritical fluid extraction, but that still requires the liquor to be fluid enough to pump it.

The net/net is - any commercial cocoa powder you purchase is highly likely to be fermented and roasted. Most biogenic amine formation is driven by thermogenic - not enzymatic - changes, and free amino acids (including tryptophan), are present in un-fermented cocoa to begin with. If you don't ferment the beans, the beans will be unprocessable from a viscosity standpoint; if you don't roast the beans, they will be unsafe to consume from a microbiological standpoint.

bongaan
@bongaan
11/28/13 23:01:38
12 posts

fermentation - the light came on?


Posted in: Make Mine Raw ... (Read-Only)

This may be a stupid/newbie question, but how do I know if my raw cacao powder has been fermented or not?

Without repeating myself too much, in the introduce yourself section you can read that I get ill from chocolate. People with histaminosis get ill from most fermented foods/ingredients. This is because during fermentation enzymes break down some of the protein into various amines which we can't tolerate. Amines are not destroyed by heat.

So I believe the light came on, on why I get ill from chocolate, to do with the fermentation. Do I understand correctly that most commercial chocolate are made from fermented beans? Because if fermentation is indeed my issue and if 'my people' do tolerate raw better due to no fermentation, then my answer is in using unfermented beans/cacao but yet roast it to kill the bugs (and obviously increase the flavor)?

If I can just figure out on whether it is indeed the case that my raw cacao is also unfermented? Please help with that.

And how do youroast cacao powder? Sorry for all the questions...


updated by @bongaan: 12/13/24 12:16:49
Peter John J Briol
@Peter John J Briol
11/27/13 19:18:45
1 posts

Packaging the chocolate


Posted in: Opinion

Please help me. How can i seal my chocolate to protect it for spoilage.

Thank you!


updated by @Peter John J Briol: 04/20/15 09:15:38
Larry2
@Larry2
12/01/13 00:16:28
110 posts

Mix & Match Enrobing Equipment


Posted in: Opinion

Clay,

Please forgive my poor choice of words. In referring to a 'larger machine' I simply mean an enrobing capable machine. i.e. a hilliards 80 or 240, a choco TT, an Air 2.0... We are currently using some revolation 3210s & a Hilliard Little Dipper to dip by hand. - There are a lot of 'larger machines' out there. :)

In setting my goal at 20 belt feet per hour, I'm thinking along the lines of run 16 inches, stop - cut paper, run 16 inches, stop cut paper... So while the belt may be moving at 1.5 Feet per Minute, is isn't running continuously.

I'll do more homework on blowers. From my preliminary reviews, it is interesting that a blower isn't listed as an option on the Perfect Enro 6, any of the Hilliard machines, or the Bakon Mini Enrober. If they are listening, perhaps adding that option would be a bright ideal. ;)

I'll hunt for the posts about DIYing a blower.

Thank you,

Larry

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
11/30/13 13:35:36
1,689 posts

Mix & Match Enrobing Equipment


Posted in: Opinion

Larry -

The issue is NOT NECESSARILY a larger tempering machine. If you put 500 pieces/hr through the enrober at (given the size) 5gr of chocolate per piece, you only need 2.5kg chocolate/hr. A 30kg working bowl capacity wheel machine (batch) should keep you going for 10 hours easily. A 7kg working bowl continuous temperer will keep you going for as long as you want to work if you keep the working bowl topped up as you go. You cannot begin to use the capacity of a 25kg working bowl continuous tempering machine with a 6 or 7" belt.

20 belt feet/hr is 1/3 foot per minute. Slowest most machines run is about 1.5 feet/minute. You have a lot of headroom here to grow production. If your work is organized well you can think about 2000-2500 pieces in 4-6 hours without pushing things.

Make sure that whatever belt you get has a blower to remove excess chocolate or be prepared to make one DIY.

Larry2
@Larry2
11/29/13 21:18:29
110 posts

Mix & Match Enrobing Equipment


Posted in: Opinion

Thank you Clay! I haven't used an enrober yet, but I've done a fair amount of research & dreaming. - Not to mention stalking the classifieds.

I really appreciate your insight about how many chocolates we'll be able to get per foot of belt. Getting an extra row on the belt really changes the math of how much we can do.

I'm not ready to jump ona purchase yet. - Perhaps by saving up through Christmas we'll be able to make something happen.

I'll also keep watching the classifieds. - Larger tempering machines come up on a regular basis, but I've had questions about getting a larger temperer and getting the belt later.- Thus the mix & match question. :)

Boy! If I could push 20 belt feet/hr (with two people) that turns into an awful lot of chocolate per hour. It would be so much easier get control of our man-hours.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Larry

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
11/29/13 15:15:01
1,689 posts

Mix & Match Enrobing Equipment


Posted in: Opinion

Larry:

You've got a pretty good handle on how to figure production, which is more dependent on the width of the belt than it is on the capacity of the working bowl.

If your pieces are 7/8" square, with practice you'd be able to get 4 pieces on a 6" belt and 5 pieces on a 7" belt. At the same spacing you'd be able to get 8 rows/foot with practice.

That's between 30-40 pieces per foot with a belt running at between 1.5- 3 feet per minute.

Now you are right that taking the product off the belt will slow things down, but that's also a factor of what kinds of decorating you're doing and how many people are working the belt.

300 pieces/hr is not a lot of production for an enrober.

A new Selmi R200 belt, all by itself, is more than your entire budget (list is 6900/$9400).

A new Hilliard's Six Inch Coater cost about US$18,000 last time I priced them (2011).

FBM offers a 7kg bowl capacity machine with a 7" enrober belt for about 11,000 (less 10% for ChocolateLife members) new.

A new machine that might be in your price range is a Bakon wheel tempering machine with mini-enrober. Last time I looked it was squarely in your price range and I have been able to offer discounts to ChocolateLife members in the past, I would have to contact Bakon to see what current pricing is and if there is still a discount program I can offer. In looking at the video I notice there is no air blower but there is a de-tailer. I would call a blower a requirement, so I would ask them about that. If you want to DIY a blower, it'll be easier than trying to hook up a Choco-TT to a Selmi R200 belt.

Larry2
@Larry2
11/27/13 20:52:19
110 posts

Mix & Match Enrobing Equipment


Posted in: Opinion

It may also help to add that our chocolates are 7/8" square before dipping.Thanks
Larry2
@Larry2
11/27/13 17:45:43
110 posts

Mix & Match Enrobing Equipment


Posted in: Opinion

Currently chocolate is the equivalent of a hobby. We have been dipping at night after the kids go to sleep. So while we aren't moving a lot of chocolate right now, that is partly due to the fear of over-committing and not being able to produce enough chocolates.

I am looking for a machine that I can run once a week & produce plenty of chocolates to sell.

I think I'm lookingfor a machine to do 300 +pcs / hr.

My number crunching suggests that I could put 3 chocolates across on a 6" belt. I think we could put 5 rows per foot of belt. That would mean we need to do 15 belt feet/hr. it should be doable. I doubt I'll have a cooling tunnel to start so I'm not sure what to figure on belt speed. With not having a cooling tunnel I think we'll need to use the paper and cut it every so often & transfer the chocolates. That will slow us down a lot but hey it works.

I'm looking to spend around 7-9K so I recognize the need to shop around.

I truly appreciate your insight and wisdom.

Larry

Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
11/27/13 15:41:10
1,689 posts

Mix & Match Enrobing Equipment


Posted in: Opinion

Larry:

Like many things, it can probably be done - but it's probably not as straightforward as you think it's going to be.

One thing that I would like to know is ... what's your production throughput requirement? Pieces per hour? Kilos of chocolate per hour. There may be off-the-shelf integrated solutions that are in your price range.

:: Clay

Larry2
@Larry2
11/27/13 08:26:46
110 posts

Mix & Match Enrobing Equipment


Posted in: Opinion

I have a somewhat random question.

We are on a tight budget, and I keep hunting for a deal of an enrober. It hasn't come up yet, but it occurred to me that I may not need to match the enrobing belt to the tempering machine.

- yes a matched set would be best, but would it be possible to get a selmi enrobing belt (everyone seems to love Selmi) and retrofit it to a JKV, Perfect, or other machine? I recognize this would require some machining as the Selmi equipment is set up to attach to their hose, but I'm confident I can handle that. I think it would just require adding a funnel adapter to the hose connector. - The funnel (with an overflow slit) could make the transition from open pour to the narrow hole.

I wonder if this would allow me to get a Selmi belt, and a cheaper tempering machine with the goal of moving to a Selmi tempering machine in a few years.

Has anyone else experimented like this? Was it successful or foolish? My hypothesis is that an unmatched set would allow for more effective bargain hunting. Or at least moving in smaller steps towards a great setup.

Thanks,

Larry


updated by @Larry2: 04/09/15 22:36:14
Clay Gordon
@Clay Gordon
11/29/13 14:38:00
1,689 posts

get ill from chocolate


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

Doing two minutes' research on the internet is always problematic because you don't know what sources are reliable.

Bongaan's interest in making chocolate is not a commercial venture, it's because he has a particular disease called histaminosis and wants to make chocolate so it's safe for him to eat. Histaminosis is a spectrum disorder ranging from mild to lethal in terms of responses. Histamines are related to allergies so it may be that bongaan is allergic to something in commercial chocolate. Through experimentation he has found that "raw" chocolate does not trigger his histaminosis.

The original set of responses was driven, in part, because we did not know the nature of bongaan's illness. Now that we have some clues, we can provide more relevant answers.

It occurs to me that what may be happening is that the process of roasting cocoa beans generates a chemical that is not present in un-roasted beans that triggers histaminosis in some people . The article linked to above suggests that a reaction to chocolate that is similar to red wine headaches.

The challenge facing bongaan, then, is to make chocolate from un-roasted beans and to make sure that the chocolate is safe from other forms of potentially harmful bacterial contamination, which is the concern that Sebastian raises .

Chocolate Alchemy is a great resource for making chocolate on a small scale for not that much money. Many members of TheChocolateLife have started out using Chocolate Alchemy as a resource. However, it don't think the discussions adequately address the potential risks of using those same processes to make chocolate with un-roasted beans.

The investment in making chocolate from the bean can be under US$1000 if a conventional oven is used and supporting equipment (like the winnower) is very much DIY. Even though buying organic raw paste and liquor may be expensive, the question is how long is it going to take to recoup the investment in equipment and make that approach worthwhile? Cost is very much a factor for bongaan and the Rand is near a four-year low against the US$ making things almost 50% more expensive than they were just two years ago.

Sebastian
@Sebastian
11/29/13 06:08:44
754 posts

get ill from chocolate


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

If he's simultaneously stating that its raw and has a low microbe count, i'd be very, very suspicious. Organic has nothing to do with micro food safety. HE may believe they're low in micro count, but my very strong suspicion is that he's a marketing guy trying to sell his beans, and has absolutely no proof the beans have a 'virtually nonexistent' microbe count.

bongaan
@bongaan
11/29/13 01:04:16
12 posts

get ill from chocolate


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

Regarding the issuethat raw is potentially dangerous, the guys I bought it from states this:

Raw, Organic: This is a 100% raw product that is certified organic by BCS Oko Garantie.

Low Microbe Count: Because of the exceptional quality and standards under which these beans are processed, any foreign microbe/bacteria activity is virtually nonexistent on the skin and inner nib.Due to the high level of quality control our cacao beans may eaten without peeling.

Now do I call it BS or isn't it also a fact that the danger of raw is because of how they handle the beans and surely if done properly it could be safe?

bongaan
@bongaan
11/28/13 23:03:47
12 posts

get ill from chocolate


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

You guys can always be so kind as to jump to my new post and rather help me out there? :)

bongaan
@bongaan
11/28/13 22:28:46
12 posts

get ill from chocolate


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

Thank you Sebastian, apology accepted and you are forgiven.

You see the problem I face is while chocolate making are a passion for most of you here, I just wish to eat chocolate once in a while, and to be quite frank, I actually just want to buy it in the store. But due to the fact that I become ill of chocolate and many other foods, chocolate making came to mind. So now I have to way up all the effort of making it against missing out on it. Between, work, family and trying to manage my illness (I have severe histaminosis, which almost killed me several times and where close to becoming disabled) I now need to see if I can just get the basics down of chocolate making and whether it will grow on me or not. Making it from the bean is something I don't think I'll ever do, currently the effort doesn't match my perception of the reward. So I willbe looking into making chocolate with cacao powder or paste. Maybe I should try and buy the really expensive chocolates in the store and see whether they make me ill or not as I had to fork out quite a bit for cacao butter and raw cacao, so I'm definitely not saving any money, and just add effort in trying to do it myself. All and all, that is why I tried to short way first and hoped some of you would direct me to the basics.

And as for raw cacao, please just know I'm not one of those people who are infactuated with eating everything raw. The logic behind me buying raw cacao wasthat many others with my illness tolerate raw cacao better and I decided to try it. It was eating no chocolae vs possibly being able to tolerate some. Unfortunately didn't know about the possible contamination.

Thank you for your input.

Sebastian
@Sebastian
11/28/13 20:24:26
754 posts

get ill from chocolate


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

time tested and approved 8-)

but there may be a way to process it, keep the temps below 120F, AND obtain a 5 log kill. nevermind that it'll still taste like .. well, not great... so i still don't understand the infatuation with raw cocoa, but it may be a way to at least let people consume bad tasting chocolate w/o going into renal failure 8-)

Tom
@Tom
11/28/13 12:42:52
205 posts

get ill from chocolate


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

What, roasting it?? ;)
Sebastian
@Sebastian
11/28/13 09:15:04
754 posts

get ill from chocolate


Posted in: Allow Me to Introduce Myself

FYI for the rest of you - i MAY have come up with a way to safely use raw cocoa. i'll need to think through it a bit more, but as with any puzzle, there's a solution, it just needs to be found. I may have found a solution. If it works, it'll require equipment that you probably don't have however 8-)

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